ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Fish Of Doom · Post by **Fish Of Doom** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:37 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NFX</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 04:51 AM</dd></dl><div> It is a bit of a shame that DCR did as badly as it did. It's a really cool design, but I guess it just had an absolutely horrendous draw, people were saying much the same about Terabyte when the LW draw came up. He only got one fairly easy win at the start of the season, and one win against Double Dose by FF. But we figure out the problems, try to improve on them, and come back to see if the changes have worked. I'm sure if you try to redesign it so that the rest of the flaws are ironed out, you could do reasonably well next time. [/quote]
I actually think Death Chamber's Revenge would do a lot better in the LW division. HW has a bunch of well refined wedges and spinners, LW seems to have a lot ore boxy robots. Heck, DCR would dominate both of the current top LWs, UE3 and Fallingdown. He's wide, so he's always got an advantage against flippers, and there are a lot of flippers in the LW as well.

Siphai · Post by **Siphai** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:55 pm

someone's gonna need to break out the SLAM CAM

Post by **MadBull** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:35 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>DRD</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 06:18 AM</dd></dl><div> Pardon me for having a competitive streak in me. [/quote]
It's this sentence that made me think...

In order to be competitive, you have to be competitive.
All 4 of your robots are different levels of unusual/experimental/you name it. I do find it great to see such designs, even though some of them could be improved. THR looks cool but is not the most effective spinner, personally never been a big fan of DCR, Lich King is ineffective and Gladiator is a fun design, even though the stats are incomplete in the wedge and double axe department. However, fun and original designs have the risk of losing out against more conventional and, dare I say it, more competitive designs. I've in the past entered (relative) oddities such as The Spike, Dance the Night Away, Ace and Spades, Dugtrio, and, yes, ZED Leppelin, wanting to enter something original and different and knowing full well that odds were they would not exactly roam the competitive scene. For this reason I never complained or felt bad when they sometimes did not make it to the semies, and other times did outright poor. On the other end of the spectrum I had Vendetta and The Thwacking Head, who, I'd like to think, or not entirely conventional either, but were attempts to use that which works, they are competitive. At the same time I can say Vendetta's dual wedge setup that allows it to alter between 2 different kinds of wedges without using interchangeable weaponry, is entirely my own, and The Thwacking Head also had some features intended for perfectiong the thwackbot design.

What I'm trying to say is... there are 2 ways into this game, trying to be creative, and trying to be competitive. SOMETIMES these 2 match, and when that happens, it is great, fantastic, awesome. Quite often thought, being creative and being competitive are 2 things that clash. When I watch your robots, I would put you into the creative side of things, which I greatly respect, but when I then saw your rant, you quite clearly wish to be competitive. If you truly wish to stand a better chance at winning, try 1 or 2 more competitive (generic?) designs in your team, in which case you still have 2 or 3 spots left to try something creative. I think trying to use a more generic robot for a change may even be a great learning experience, learning to understand what works, what makes it work, and from there maybe give it a creative spin the season thereafter, be it in ARC or another tournament.

DRD · Post by **DRD** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:47 pm

See that's the thing... DCR is a competitive design! It's not even that creative of a design either. It's basically a modified version of Huggy Bear.

joeychevron · Post by **joeychevron** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:58 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>DRD</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 09:47 PM</dd></dl><div> See that's the thing... DCR is a competitive design! It's not even that creative of a design either. It's basically a modified version of Huggy Bear. [/quote]
at the risk of stating the obvious, if it's lost that many matches by definition it can't be...the main issue I can see is that the inside of the clamping area is very vulnerable to wedges and flippers (Dylan's comment about it being able to beat UE3 and Falling Down mystifies me for that reason as anything vaguely wedgy, like the aforementioned robots, will exploit that to negate anything DCR can do) and the clamping concept in itself is going to be difficult to make spinnerproof unless you go for the Tough As Nails approach.

Post by **MadBull** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:10 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>DRD</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 10:47 PM</dd></dl><div> See that's the thing... DCR is a competitive design! It's not even that creative of a design either. It's basically a modified version of Huggy Bear. [/quote]
Can you explain to me what makes it competitive? As far as I can tell there are no similar ARC-machines out there that met with huge successes, nor can DCR's own record claim its truly competitive. The fact alone there are no similar designs in ARC is why I called it a "creative" design, or at least unique within ARC.

succotash_54 · Post by **succotash_54** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:37 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Siphai</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 01:09 PM</dd></dl><div>

[/quote]
Nice, but the bottom of the plow extends out further than the top.

succotash_54 · Post by **succotash_54** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:46 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Area51Escapee</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 01:14 AM</dd></dl><div> You know this is the final season, right? There's no coming back regardless. [/quote]
We keep saying that, but I don't know that I'll be saying "Done" yet. You guys can bail if you want, but depending on how I'm feeling, I may go ahead and host another season or so. We'll see how I'm feeling.

Post by **That Kode Guy** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:58 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>succotash_54</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 06:46 PM</dd></dl><div> <blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Area51Escapee</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 01:14 AM</dd></dl><div> You know this is the final season, right? There's no coming back regardless. [/quote]
We keep saying that, but I don't know that I'll be saying "Done" yet. You guys can bail if you want, but depending on how I'm feeling, I may go ahead and host another season or so. We'll see how I'm feeling. [/quote]
If it would happen, I quite would like another season tbh, but not with all the controversy that came with it. :/

NFX · Post by **NFX** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:04 pm

I'd quite like another season or two to have fun with. I'm thinking of doing an early Robot Wars UK style of competition, with various trials and stuff, rather than all battles, in an attempt to have some more rounded and diverse bots.

NWOWWE · Post by **NWOWWE** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:05 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>succotash_54</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 06:37 PM</dd></dl><div> <blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Siphai</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 01:09 PM</dd></dl><div>

[/quote]
Nice, but the bottom of the plow extends out further than the top. [/quote]
Which the plow in the picture clearly does.

Post by **That Kode Guy** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:07 pm

I think he means further than that Josh

NWOWWE · Post by **NWOWWE** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:09 pm

Well that's not what the wording of his post suggested. Of course Philip has a history of being rather picky when people CAD his paintpics.

Siphai · Post by **Siphai** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:13 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>succotash_54</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 05:46 PM</dd></dl><div> <blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Area51Escapee</dt><dd>Mar 22 2011, 01:14 AM</dd></dl><div> You know this is the final season, right? There's no coming back regardless. [/quote]
We keep saying that, but I don't know that I'll be saying "Done" yet. You guys can bail if you want, but depending on how I'm feeling, I may go ahead and host another season or so. We'll see how I'm feeling. [/quote]
I've been thinking about another season as well to be honest. Although before that starts I'd like to get a general consensus on the rules first and iron things out. A little too many vague statements and 'implied' rules that make things a little tougher on those who haven't been here as long.

Siphai · Post by **Siphai** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:16 pm

yeah this is a side view. about as far as i could extend the bottom without it looking too weird. I did get what you were going for with your paint pick in spirit, if not in picture.