Variable Stats

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StarlessSoldier
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Variable Stats

Post by StarlessSoldier » Mon May 03, 2010 3:58 am

This is a subject I've had interest in for a while. I even had ideas for it in the new FF but I didn't want to shoehorn it into the rules at the last minute. The idea is the possibility of bots with not only alternate configurations but variable stats to go with them. The main thing this would be used for is alternating between offensive and defensive set-ups. Obviously this could be severely abused to make bots that are nearly unbeatable, so I've come up with a few regulatory ideas as well.

The basic requirements:
The bot's chassis must remain unmodified in each version. For example: No changing the number of drive wheels or adding supports and attachment points that are not normally there. Also the change must not be extremely labor intensive. Real builders sometimes have as little as 20 minutes in the pits between fights, so our fantasy bots should reflect that as well. As such the modifications must be reasonably quick and easy.

What you CAN NOT do:
Power doesn't just appear, so changing between an offensive and a defensive weapon set-up will not alter your bot's speed. Traction may be debatable but I'll get into that later.

Now, to help my side of the debate I've compiled some examples.

Diesector: I'll use this one first since most people will be familiar with it. For this example we'll say Diesectors stats are as follows:
Speed 6
Traction 5
Armor 6
Weapon 5
When facing spinners (see Final Destiny and Dreadnought) Don removes the hammers (they'd be spinner chow anyway) and uses the extra weight to attach a heavy plow to the rear. Since he takes weight away from the weapons (disabling 2 of them) and adds an armor upgrade to the rear, the stats could effectively change to this:
Speed 6
Traction 5
Armor 8 (+2 at rear plow, 6 everywhere else)
Weapon 3
As you can see, the armor changes to 10 at the plow but remains 6 everywhere else since no other armor was added (a system that the current rules already enable). At the same time, 2 points are deducted from the weapons since the hammers are no longer there, leaving just enough to operate the jaws.

Tekka Maki: This isn't an example of a planned mod, but still proves the theory. This bot from team Diginatti is a heavyweight with 2WD and a drum weapon.
Speed 4
Traction 4
Armor 5
Weapon 9
At IIRC The 2003 Nationals, another spinner basicly annihilated his drum beyond repair. The Diginatti guys welded a big section of steel I-Beam in place of the drum. The makeshift ramming weapon was actually pretty effective at blocking spinners, essentially altering the stats to this:
Speed 4
Traction 3
Armor 14 (plus 9 to the front ramming weapon, 5 everywhere else)
Weapon 0
I realize this makes him holy fuckballs indestructible but the FF stats would kill him just like what killed him in real life: impact damage. Even the ARC system would hurt him with only 5 armor everywhere but the ram.

Root Canal: Don's newest version of Root Canal is a heavyweight with a lifting jaw system that can rotate completely above, under, or behind the bot. It has four cambered wheels. For all intents and purposes we'll stat it like this:
Speed 6
Traction 6
Armor 6
Weapon 4
Much like big brother Diesector, Root Canal has an alternate spinner configuration. The weapon is removed and a bolt on 40 pound static plow replaces it. Now, in this configuration Root Canal also has its normal solid rubber wheels replaced with wide foam filled tires. In this case, traction is arguably affected as well.
Speed 6
Traction 7
Armor 9 (plus 3 to the plow, 6 everywhere else)
Weapon 0

Obviously this would have to be carefully policed to avoid abuse, but I think it could be an interesting and innovative new rule.

Let the flaming begin!

Area51Escapee
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Variable Stats

Post by Area51Escapee » Mon May 03, 2010 10:32 am

As far as a rule to make the game more interesing, I definitely like it. I think it's got some potential. But yeah, it'll need some adjusting, I think.

Right now, I could easily exploit a Diesector type deal with much of my bots. I was reluctant to use Green Dragon because his concept would probably fail against certain bots, but I could just remove it and replace it with a hinged plow or something, and defeat the purpose of him. However, since it's mostly just interchanging the weapon and armor, it's not terrible. In fact, I could see it implemented.

As far as incidental mods, like the one for Codebreaker Jr, the problem is with the case of bringing back the "pit system" idea in some form and everyone hated the pits. Partly because it was a lot for the writers to remember for each bot, but also people could feel cheated sometimes if their bot gets screwed over with too much damage early on (ie: hence the origin of the "Toxic Hazard" award)

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Variable Stats

Post by StarlessSoldier » Mon May 03, 2010 2:09 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Area51Escapee</dt><dd>May 3 2010&#44; 03:32 PM</dd></dl><div> As far as incidental mods, like the one for Codebreaker Jr, the problem is with the case of bringing back the "pit system" idea in some form and everyone hated the pits. Partly because it was a lot for the writers to remember for each bot, but also people could feel cheated sometimes if their bot gets screwed over with too much damage early on (ie: hence the origin of the "Toxic Hazard" award) [/quote]
No, I didn't mean including things like that in the rules. That was just another example of replacing active weapons with additional armor.

Area51Escapee
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Variable Stats

Post by Area51Escapee » Mon May 03, 2010 4:43 pm

Oh ok. Yeah, my original response was just simply "I support that", but that sounded weird for some reason.

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Post by NWOWWE » Tue May 04, 2010 10:15 am

I actually kind of like this idea. It
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011 wrote:
Spatula,Jan 29 2011 wrote: I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.
It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.

StarlessSoldier
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Post by StarlessSoldier » Wed May 05, 2010 3:27 am

I don't want to start a new topic and since we're on the subject of stats here anyway: I'm pretty sure you guys are still counting a lifting clamp as 2 weapons, but lifters can have very low power; so how much weapon power would be required to do what complete control does?

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Post by NWOWWE » Wed May 05, 2010 8:56 am

I would venture something like 5 points would be reasonable. Of course Chris or whoever can chime in with their take on it as well.
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011 wrote:
Spatula,Jan 29 2011 wrote: I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.
It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.

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That Kode Guy
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Post by That Kode Guy » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:55 am

Bumping thread, as I'm quite interested in this. Falling Down was a good example of this (though maybe not in the eyes of a few others) as it worked quite well for him.
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Post by NWOWWE » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:58 am

I think the main issue with Falling Down was that Joey was pretty adement on the notion that Falling Down didn't lose armor when he used the spinner set-up, which of course is what people took issue with. Applied in the proper fashion I still think it could work out.
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011 wrote:
Spatula,Jan 29 2011 wrote: I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.
It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.

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That Kode Guy
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Post by That Kode Guy » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:01 am

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NWOWWE</dt><dd>Aug 16 2013, 10:58 AM</dd></dl><div>I think the main issue with Falling Down was that Joey was pretty adement on the notion that Falling Down didn't lose armor when he used the spinner set-up, which of course is what people took issue with. Applied in the proper fashion I still think it could work out.[/quote]Well he did, because the armour value went from 9 to 6. It just wasn't displayed on the drawing. However you could argue that the regular set-up was the one with the weapon and is how he'd look normally, and then with the armour set-up he'd just a little more... bulky. I don't know. In any case Joey was wrong to not specify in the drawing.
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Badnik96
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Post by Badnik96 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:06 am

I think this is a pretty cool idea actually. I'd be cool with this.
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That Kode Guy
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Post by That Kode Guy » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:07 am

Also this would help Rob Collins' bot Jupiter out, seeing as he really could enter it as one chameleon/multi-setup bot.
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Post by NFX » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:28 am

On the subject of Falling Down, I remember Joey saying something along the lines of there being extra panels beneath the normal armour panels. Sort of like wearing a vest under your shirt to keep warm.
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Post by Probably Rob » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:47 am

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>KodeBreaker</dt><dd>Aug 16 2013, 11:07 AM</dd></dl><div>Also this would help Rob Collins' bot Jupiter out, seeing as he really could enter it as one chameleon/multi-setup bot.[/quote]Nah, can't mate, unless the team is willing to get more metal for another robot, and have all of the weapons be interchangeable. ;)

Who knows? Only time will tell&#33;

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Post by playzooki » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:35 pm

What a brilliant idea...

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